85: Are You Poly-Curious and a Swinger? With DirtyLola

The Pineapple Express Podcast: Polycurious Swinging with DirtyLola

In this exciting episode of the Pineapple Express Podcast, host Kiley sits down with the unapologetically bold DirtyLola, a sex educator and polyamory advocate, to dive deep into the world of polycurious swinging. Join them as they explore the intersections of non-monogamy, swinging, and curiosity about polyamorous relationships. DirtyLola shares her personal journey of embracing ethical non-monogamy, offering relatable stories and expert insights on how to navigate these dynamic relationship styles. Together, they break down myths, highlight the importance of clear communication, and discuss how to create safer, consent-driven spaces for sexual exploration.

Whether you're just beginning to explore non-monogamy or you're a seasoned swinger looking to learn more about polyamory, this episode is packed with practical tips and engaging conversations to inspire your journey. Tune in to hear how curiosity and openness can lead to more fulfilling, connected relationships.

Tune in to learn:

• What it means to be polycurious as a swinger.
• How to communicate effectively about boundaries and desires.
• Tips from DirtyLola on balancing multiple relationships.

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Transcript

• Welcome guys to the pineapple express. Podcast I have a Sexbert, Dildo Slinger and sex educator with me today. So I have dirty Lola, that's what she's known on at online spaces. So, Lola, if you could do me a huge favor and just like, introduce yourself in your words. And what brings you to non monogamous, swinger, polyamorous! All those spaces.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:00:28
• Yeah.
• all the things you said. I'm based at Brooklyn. I've been set in sex education for 14 years. I've been doing pleasure products like almost a decade. And I've been non monogamous
• sorry
• since high School, with a with a pause in the middle for monogamy. That was a failed. Experiment.
• And for me
• in high school we we there were labels, I mean, we were just all experimenting, but I had multiple partners. At one time everybody was on board. I don't. We weren't at all at the level. I think I am now in my communication all those things. But it was, wasn't
• this big deal? It's like, Oh, yeah, fine. I'm I'm cool with you dating us, I think. Also because
• I went to a very progressive high school, and a lot of us were already out as
• queer, gay. So there was a large community, and within that, I think especially back then identified as Bi. And so there was this kind of understanding of like, oh, yeah, it's another guy, or it's another girl. They not competition in people's brains. So it's like sure go for it.
• And then I was monogamous for a short while, and realized this was not the life for me, and did not like it at all. And
• when I moved to start trying to open up my marriage when we were opening up our marriage, which is now we're divorced. But
• when we were moving into that swinging was like our 1st step cause that
• was without the feelings it felt comfortable for my
• then husband at the time and
• it was something where we kind of got to explore sex things or doing things with each other, and having people watching all these different bits without the emotions. And then, as we moved through non monogamy, and he ended up meeting someone that he got feelings for not in the swinger spaces, but in the sex positive spaces. We were traveling in that kind of opened the door to.
• you know, Polyamory, which I was very happy about, because that's just where my heart lives.
• But for me.
• when people talk about like oh, well, that's not very polyamorous of you, I'm like, well, Polyamory is a part of my. I look at it as part of my sexual identity. It's how my heart works. It's how my brain works, not good at monogamy. I have capacity to love multiple people. However, my vagina also has capacity to love multiple people and not
• catch feeling. So not everything I do is housed under polyamory for me. I'm able to separate and compartmentalize and just have.
• you know, sexual relationships with folks or friendships that are sexy relationships with folks that don't have to go any further. And so I don't. I think a lot of people struggle with that. They kind of get locked into.
• This is what I'm doing so. Oh, I can't veer from that. And this is what we're here today to talk about. That.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:03:29
• I know I'm so pumped because I think that this conversation this is a cultural conversation, not just like within our communities, but like, oh, just overall in the culture of non monogamy. I I see really quickly a lot of things changing. Even since I've been swinging I've only been in the swinger lifestyle for 4 years, which in the scheme of things, is not that long. But I see, like, even in the past year.
• these spaces of polyamory, and swinging in a way very much merging into something
• different than what was always before. It was always like no emotions.
• We separate that, and like we're only we only fuck, and that's it. And now it's turning into like, well, we love our friends, and we have barbecues with our friends and like.
• but we're not dating them. But like it's this weird kind of mix of both worlds. And I definitely say, since hanging out with more polyamorous people, I identify as polyamorous, even though I'm not practicing polyamory like I just heard the term poly amgamish.
• which is like monogamish, but it's like you're polyamorous like you identify as that. But you're not like dating. So, so yeah, we're gonna talk more about like being poly curious and just kind of especially coming from like a swinger standpoint, which is awesome, that you have that knowledge so like. Can you tell me a little bit what
• polycurious means to you?
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:05:01
• Yeah, I I want to start with saying, both of these things are housed under the non monogamy umbrella, like, I think, polyamory kind of gets thrown around as like
• the no monogamy. Polyamory isn't no monogamy. It's a thing under the no monogamy umbrella. So I think that's part of it, too. And so we're housed in the same house. It's always in the same house, and I think that the thing you're talking about has always kind of
• been happening like people were.
• Even when I was coming up, people were hanging out and they were friends. And then sometimes, as you would go to parties and things. And then I think people started realizing like, Oh, yeah, like.
• yeah, we're not living in a house together. And maybe you're not my girlfriend. But I have a different kind of affection and love for you, and that can ha! I have to. I can hold space for that, and still not necessarily like leap over the fence into the polyamory. So for me, Poly, curious is, are you thinking about
• deepening those bonds? Because Polyamory is while it involves sex? Really, it's about your relationships with people. So it's about your metamors like I don't have sex with my met my metamor, my my partner's wife, one of my, I don't do. I have sex with any of my.
• but I don't currently but my main partner, his wife. We're like Bff. She's like my sister. We spend time together, we nurture our relationship and our bond. She means a lot to me.
• She's important, an important person in my life.
• and that's a connection, and it's part of our polyamory, even though sex isn't involved in it. And then, you know, I have other metamores that, like again, we're really good friends. We share a person. But that might be, as far as our connection goes, it's not involving sex. So I think it's poly curious is establishing like what you're ready for. Are you moving away from? Just
• going places, meeting people having sex and not there's no follow up. Maybe you're not staying connected.
• Exploring what that connection looks like?
• And it might not
• delve into deeper territory. But it's polyamory. Is that it's that.
• Where are we going? How are we connecting?
• Roman? There is romantic bonds, there are Platonic bonds. There are all these things, but it's bonds, and it doesn't matter.
• The thing I keep trying to explain to people, especially in the dating world, is you become part of my polyamory as I fold you into my life. So you're a separate kind of entity when we're just maybe connecting sexually friends with benefits. Fuck, boys, things like that.
• But if you become part of my day to day, or if you're starting to get integrated into my friendship, that's where you're getting integrated into my polyamory. I'm folding you in, and and as your life changes. We figure out ways to keep folding us in and not disconnecting. Just because
• how you who you're with does it kind of change that
• connection? And I think that's the the polyamorous
• bit of it. That's the part. It's like the we don't have to walk away from each other at the end of this experience, and never be in touch with each other, and not
• explore like whatever affection we may have for each other, we can keep that tether going.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:08:16
• I think for me, too, there's a little bit of more of a layer and for me, it's
• not only everything that you just said, but it's like the deconstructing of monogamy sort of mindset.
• And it's and it's going further, you know, I feel like swinging. It's very much like we, and this is how I was doing it. This is not everybody's experience, but it's like you party on the weekends. You go hang out with all your friends. You fuck them, have orgies all the great things, and then during the week you're monogamous, and you're living this sort of white picket fence life with your partner
• for me. It really my journey with being poly curious, started when I was like, Oh, wait a second.
• There's more to this than just going from monogamy to non monogamy like there's there's way, more inner work that has to be done. There's dealing with jealousy
• dealing with, you know. The good parts of it, like the compersion, and all of that, and figuring out where that comes from, you know. So it's for me everything you said, and then it's that inner work, that self work and the work that you do
• with or without your partner, because I do different work than my partner does. And we have this sort of open
• communication style where it's like, if he just so happens to meet a lovely lady who he wants to spend time with outside of our relationship. He knows that that's perfectly fine. He's not seeking that out. Same with me. If I want to meet a lady or a man?
• and you know we just talk about it. We communicate about it. So it's it's really a fluidity. And can you share with us like your journey, and how it sparked your interest with polyamory, I mean, especially like going from swinging to polyamorous.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:10:09
• I mean, my goal was already always in public. I always I that was I was already living that life before I met my, the man who became my husband, and so moving into monogamy was more about what
• at the time I felt society
• was what we're supposed to do like. I was young. I was
• 19 when I met him, and we were friends, and I think we moved in right before my 21st birthday.
• and we were like still, like we were together, but we were there very much locked in, and so for about 5 or 6 years, like
• up until right up
• after our wedding, maybe a year after our wedding.
• Oh, it was! It was a few years after our wedding, like we started.
• I was not happy. I was like, this is not what I wanted is not the life, and I think part of that was our party life with our friends petered off, and that was where I was getting a lot of
• that external friendship, love and hanging out and being affectionate with people, even though it's not sex like when you have a big group of friends. You know, you're kind of loving on each other and getting that. And once and we were partying, we going to raise, and things I mean all of that kind of moved away from it. I was just well I was left with. I was like, this is this sucks? I don't like this at all. And then I remember finding an article in the New York Times about the book about Polyamory.
• I can't for the like me. I think it was Esperel's meeting in captivity like they were talking about it, and I regret it, and I'm like this is me. Oh, my gosh! This is all the things I keep trying to explain to you
• and myself, and never had the language for it. And and didn't.
• They all know how to explain it?
• And he listened. And then he's like, Okay, cool. But no, I'm like, I don't. I don't want to do this, and I think
• what scared him was the emotional bits and all that stuff.
• But
• I what I offered up because I was I identified as P. And now, at the time I was identifying spy, and I said, What if we maybe go out and seek
• somebody to like have fun with? Would you be up for that, for, like extracurricular activities, and though it never came to fruition because we're a woman and a very shy Cis man, do not make good people to go find anybody because we're both. Nobody wants to go talk to anybody.
• I know folks have had that like you do it, you do
• but it. But it was fun for us to go out, and we started going to some of our local
• swingers clubs and our newbie nights and things like that to kind of
• seek out what was going on. Meeting folks just having sex with each other, but being in the vibes being the room. That got him interested in like a little bit of soft swapping and things like that. So
• it the swinger community kind of offered this window into what sharing could look like
• even if it's just on a physical level. And I think that was helpful for him, because we could go have fun, and I'm still going home with
• we're still leaving with you. Our 1st
• full swap was the thing that really fucked him up in the best way
• it made him go, like I remember afterwards he was. Oh, man, I hate you because I get it now, like I get
• that I can have this amazing time with this person and then
• me and you are in our house making bacon
• and breakfast with each other, and it's gonna keep moving
• and then that just naturally progressed into
• us, going to events. And you go to. We were going to like kink events because I'm also kinky, and we're exploring those things and making friends and groups of friends, and that ends up being like an instant kind of working like an instant.
• hanging out, making out doing things some of them were swingers. Some of them were polyamorous, so it was just a lot of like cross pollination of folks under the sex positive umbrella. And when you're in those spaces there's also classes. So we were taking all the, you know.
• beginners polyamory just learning about it, classes about jealousy.
• and just kind of trying to fit, but I think but I was. I knew I was
• ready, but I was needing the parameters. I needed the language. So for me it was more about building it up, and I think for him it was more just about understanding where things were going to go.
• And then
• we met the woman. He ended up dating. I met her 1st and her girlfriend, and I ended up having a threesome with them while he watched and then that, and we started hanging out, and then they fell in love. And then it was just like this incremental change
• to a molecule.
• And yeah, and that was just kind of like the journey through it. So I've never. It's not like I've stopped
• necessarily swinging. I don't go out as much as I used to, but I still do events and things, and it's still a part of my life, and
• I think for me it just kind of progress into the play party scene, which, when you were talking about like the separation, I think that was the road. That's the point where all of us started to converge was play party started happening, and it wasn't a swinger play party, or this play party. It might be like a kink event.
• or it just might be like a big open play event. And so you're getting people who are dabbling, people swinging, who are polyamorous, but looking to like have sexy fun all coming together and mishmashing.
• That's where I think we started getting the like change in the culture shifting on both sides. I think that was where we really started like mixing up.
• or where I saw it mixing up. But then that also made things confusing.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:15:42
• Right? Yeah. And I. But I see that happening. I I see that happening more like people are going into the polyamory community. Like. I have my own community out here.
• and they'll be like, I want to go to swinger parties. Can you help me figure that out because I don't know what to do. And then I have swinger friends who are like, I want to be in space with polyamorous people, and all of us are kinky. We're just. We're all down for the kink, you know, so like it's just very interesting as we see more. I think millennials and Gen. Z. Kind of taking over. It's more of this cross pollination of just
• you're sex positive. And you want to be here. And and I don't really know where the differences lie anymore. But I mean well, I do. I I think that there are people who still don't want that emotion, and they don't. They're not seeking that out. And sometimes, you know, I look at my husband and and I look at him, and he's like, I just really like to fuck people. I'm not really here
• for the emotional aspect of it. And that's okay. But like we again, we just have this very open, open, ended thing going which I love. But one of the things that gets I I and this is what a lot of my like my clients will will say to me that gets really like Dicey and and Gray is sort of the boundaries, especially when you are working with your partner. And you guys are becoming poly curious.
• So can you talk a little bit about like what kind of sit conversations you should have with your partner? How to open up that conversation. Maybe the conversations that you should be having with other swingers like what is, what are some good ways to open that up.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:17:27
• Oh, definitely, when you're going, I mean
• part of this.
• Is it a boundary? Is it a
• right? Are you setting rules for each other? Are you setting cause? Boundaries? Are things for yourself.
• Rules are what we impose on each other, so are we creating boundaries for ourselves
• about what we are willing to do or not do, or what we would like ourselves.
• where? Where our line, the line is drawn, like your husband, saying, I'm not really interested in the emotional aspect. That's a boundary for him. It's not a rule on you, right? If he says I don't want you to fall in love with anybody, or you're not allowed to get emotional. That's a rule, right? And that's about stopping you from doing something
• and not himself trying to protect himself from a certain, from a thing, or he might think he is. A lot of us think rules are protecting us when really we're just trying to control other people, and that never ends up. Well. So I think, sitting down and really thinking about what you're seeking out and and then it's all fluid, and it's all going to change, because right now, like using you and your husband as an example.
• he's not in that
• house. You are curious and open right. Your curiosity is just the openness to it. Not necessarily that you're out there like I'm looking for Polycom to be a part of, or I'm looking for a person to like
• to be polyamorous with. It's more about
• I'm open. If the if if the opportunity arises and it feels right and it fits, I'd be open to it, and he's like, I'm not even open to that happening right now. That could change that could easily like the right thing might happen for the both of you and he might go. Oh, my gosh! Like
• no, I think I could do it in this container. So, sitting and thinking about what are the things you need from the situation?
• And
• do you fully understand what you're getting into? And I think that goes on the reverse, too. So as a polyamorous person, if I was going into a swinger space
• I would not go in with looking for someone, because you're not going to want to be the the necessarily enmeshing in my life, the way I like to mesh
• people I get into relationships with in my life, and you might not necessarily want to become part of my Polycuol, so am I going here to address a physical need, maybe a like.
• My brain wants some adventure. My body has a physical need, and my heart is going to be over. Here.
• are you? If you're bringing your heart into the game? Who are you bringing into the game with? And does that person understand how much you're willing to get? So are you looking for
• friends with benefits that's actual friendship, like where you create friendship bonds. You do things together. You go to movies, you have fun with each other, and you can be affectionate with each other and still fuck. But it's not necessarily like this
• deep relationship, so kind of sitting down and and
• chopping that up, going through like what you're looking for. I love
• to give people homework. So getting any kind of books where they really break it down like opening up by Tristan Permino is great because she does a lot of work in
• terms and terminology, and even some of that might be, I say, outdated just because the way we use terms has changed the way we talk about things has changed. It's not necessarily that the
• language doesn't isn't isn't good. It's just that it might be slightly different than we use now, and there's so many other books, but finding something
• about the space you're curious about
• and going through it together, and kind of getting an idea about it. Arming yourself with the right questions to ask folks like, what are they looking for?
• Being real about what you're able to offer? So like, what? Sitting with each other like, what's our full stop?
• Are we okay with Dex? And then, maybe
• giving out our phone numbers. So we can like
• make friendship time and dates, but maybe not solo dates. So maybe we're going together as a unit. But we won't be doing solo stuff. It's just kind of breaking it up. And the same way you negotiate in swinging right? Because not everybody in swinging is having sex with everybody. You're doing soft swap you full swap, you might not swap at all. You might just be there to be in. The vibes. Have sex with each other. You want to be in the room. You want to be in pile you. You're okay with touching, reaching out. But you don't want to like actually
• have sex with other people swinging has its own separate umbrella of types of swingers. Right? And we respect that. And you know that
• is the same in polyamory. So when you're meshing. It's kind of like. Oh, what do you do? What's your type?
• And most of us can answer that like, I'm solo poly. I don't have a primary. I'm my own primary.
• I live alone, I I pay my own bills and take care of myself. I have a main partner. We don't practice hierarchical polyamory, but I call him my main partner because he's been my partner for 7 years, so he's like the one that's been in my life for the longest. He and his wife
• don't do hierarchy, but they keep it classy. They have a kid. They own a house like there's things they have to tend to that don't involve me because I don't live with them, and you know, so are there layers into like things that they have to take care of that? Can't
• I? Can't necessarily be involved in? Yes. But do we involve each other in like the the thought process, the talking about it, the letting me know what's going on, all of that, and that. That's the stuff. I think
• when you're getting into it. Do you realize it's life stuff?
• It is. It's the white picket fence and polyamory. But maybe we have 3 houses connected. So it's the bill paying the childcare, the Google calendar sharing the like, I'm I'm literally. I just rescheduled today with them because we need to talk about becoming for Christmas
• and like, what are we doing and all the things that we're gonna see because they have all that stuff. That's the stuff that's poly, ever. It's the. It's the unsexy life stuff. And how much of that do you want? And right or like, Oh, no, I don't want any of that. Yeah.
• Yeah. And it sounds like a lot. So you can do incremental like. Take it by your situation. Are you going to a mixed party
• or a space that is polyamorous? And you are curious, and you're stepping in
• like.
• be ready to answer about
• where you want to go with it, or how far you're
• wading into it, and you might find there's some people that are like. Oh, no, I don't want to deal with that. And then, like I was just with a lover. Read Mahoka, who's a sex educator and
• delves into this, and we were literally talking about this
• about him going into these swinger spaces, and then he gets all squishy hearted, and he's like I want
• I want. Oh, but I want to still be friends with you, like, Okay, but can I date you both? And like we come in? We're like, oh, and he's, you know, having to like, oh, is that a thing you would like?
• Yeah, I would like it. So you know, it's just be ready to answer those questions for yourself. Yeah, or just say, we're not sure
• we're not sure even saying I'm curious. I'm curious is such a good answer. I'm curious, and I'm learning whatever it is. Those are. Those are all great points of communication.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:24:34
• Absolutely, and I'm the I'm the squishy one, and my husband is more of like the
• not quite as squishy as me like I just I love everybody, and I just saw, you know. So
• it's I've always really struggled in swinger spaces, even though I love them because it's how I started, and it's where I
• found myself, really. But like that, squishiness can be sort of tough to navigate, especially when you and your partner are at different places. So I feel like that's why that open communication is so important, and he knows how I am, and he's just like Babe. I see you kind of being squishy right now.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:25:20
• Hey, Eric.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:25:20
• Getting those feelings. And that's why, like, you know, like, we don't have a lot of
• rules when it comes to our suite. The way that we, the way that we swing we really have never had a lot of rules like it's always been
• pretty open, ended pretty free, like, I text. You know, my Guy friends, all the time in a very like loving.
• not romantic space, but in a way of like I'm there for them.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:25:51
• Like.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:25:52
• I'm I'm their friend when they want to bitch about work, or they want to like bitch about. They they never bitch about their wives to me. Because that's kind of yeah.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:26:00
• But yeah.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:26:01
• Their family, or, you know, like their kids are bugging them, or whatever you know, I'm there for them as a friend, and that to me is is love in a way. It's it's emotional, you know you get. And and I like with women friends, you know. Like I get emotional with them. My husband, I remember, like we were leaving a party once, and he started crying
• because he was leaving like this couple that we used to be really, really close with, like he was leaving her. And he was like, I'm just gonna miss life of spice so much like I. And he was like crying in the car. And I'm like holding him. And so that those were the moments when we sort of realized that like this
• could potentially be more than just really fun sexual connections.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:26:49
• Yeah. And that's the thing, that's all.
• Polly, and that that is the I think the thing we've all been screaming from the mountaintops is like, yes, inherently, for a lot of this sex is a part of it, right? Because we're with different people. But it's really about the different kinds of love, and like
• not making that a bad thing. It's beautiful. He could cry about that and hold him, and with space, and understand it, and not be like. What does this mean? Why is he crying? He's gonna leave me! Oh, my God! Cause that's that's
• but that's talks monogamy. I won't even say that's monogamy. I will say that's toxic toxic monogamy, because I have some monogamous friends who have beautiful monogamous relationships that I just. I'm like, oh, this is how?
• Oh, oh, yes, I think this is beautiful, that you can
• let each other be human beings and know that you know it's not about like. Oh, your husband can admire somebody in front of you. And you're like, Yeah, she's cute. Or you could say, like, I'm gonna miss this person, and you're not gonna be like, Oh, my God, what does that mean? Right? You shouldn't miss anybody but me. That's the toxic part. So just letting people
• be there. And I? Yes, but the feelings that's
• you're leaking into.
• You're starting to peek into the polyamory.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:28:07
• And yeah, and that sort of goes back to like
• managing feelings of jealousy and insecurity. And I think that a lot of times, 1st of all, those feelings come up, no matter what. If you're monogamous.
• if you're non monogamous, if you're a swinger, if you're polyamorous, it doesn't matter who you are, or what sort of relationship structure you're in. Those feelings do come up. So I kind of want to talk about. How do you think people can manage those feelings of jealousy or insecurity, especially when they're starting to sort of dive deeper into the polyamorous.
• You know, mindset, you know, especially like coming from a swinger context.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:28:52
• Oh, my gosh! I don't know if you've ever read the Ethical Slide.
• It is such a good book, and their chapter on jealousy literally falling out of my book because I revisit it so often. One of the biggest lessons I think it was also the light bulb for me was like, oh, there's 1
• you're it's a it's a real emotion. It's not a bad emotion, it's an emotion.
• People label jealousy as like bad. And I I don't think it's. It's not a bad emotion.
• it's something that comes up and you feel it. It's what you do with it. It's what you do because you're feeling it that can be good or bad.
• And then the other thing I learned that was like so helpful is that that's your shit.
• Jealousy is definitely not anybody else's fault. Now the caveat, the the other bit to that could be it could be a red flag. So you might be feeling this because there's some red flags on the field. You need to pay attention to what's going on. So it's a moment when you feel that to pause and dissect it. I
• constantly feel jealous that never goes away. My partner
• I have. I have a lover who has many lovers and a wife. I have a partner who has a wife and and 2 other girlfriends and dates and things.
• And you know I'm dating like this is. It's very much open. It doesn't change
• that when
• any of my lovers
• are dating anybody new, there's this moment of like oh.
• like oh! And for me I had to look. Where does that come from? And it's because we're long distance. I'm long distance from everybody right now.
• and I don't get to see them often. So it's this
• person.
• especially for my partner.
• They live in your town.
• You get to have random, like
• coffee dates, or picnics, or just couple of hours. You can go steal away. And we have to really plan our time. Most of our time is digital and then, when we are together, it has to be so planned to make sure we're getting in all the things like relationship stuff, but also family time, but also like activities. Because we're in each other's family. We want to do stuff, and it's
• so much planning, and I don't get that like ambient.
• I can just drop in and get coffee and say Hi! To everybody, and then go about my business, and that for me is always the thing that stings the most. And I think there's also this
• bit where I'm like. Am I going to be replaced now? And that was stuff that I realized. Oh, that's not for me to put on him. It's not fair. He's not doing anything wrong. It's me to deal with, but I did share it with him.
• so I did tell him like, this is what was
• coming up for me.
• and it led to us making date nights because we both realized like, oh, at the time I wasn't getting any kind of
• structured date time with him, and that helped so that helped alleviate it to the point where now, when I feel it, it's not as sharp and deep.
• Sometimes, I ask him, can you? I I want to know that you're going out, or that you're going to see somebody. But I I don't want to hear about the whole thing, especially in the beginning. And when he has inre because he talks about a lot, so I'll ask for him to like pull back cause. I need to like inch into it
• and like I, and because it it just, it's freaking hard.
• But having that communication with him about it, and being able to voice it without blaming.
• and also
• for myself. It was like, Oh, where is this coming from? And my favorite thing to do is I sit. And I say, are you being a stupid bitch
• about this? Because, you know, am I am I? Is this a real? This is really a problem, or are you like
• and upset about something that you really can't control? Like, you know.
• I can't control the distance.
• I can't. You know, those are the things. So it's it's just talking to yourself. And then on the other side, when I talk about red flags and and to not overlook those there. Sometimes the red flag is, did I make requests of my partner?
• And they're not getting met so, especially for those of you who are curious or newly moving into things like you said, you don't have rules. You might you and you have. It's very open, ended.
• These might be the moments where you might need to make guidelines right? Because when, if you start texting someone, but it's of the more romantic nature, your partner might not feel good about you doing that during TV time, right? Like TV watching time or if you've asked for some stuff, your partners going on a date.
• And you said like, Oh, I would really love, or going away for a weekend which used to be my thing with my ex-husband like you're going away for a long weekend I would love. If we, if we could connect sexually before you go, it would be amazing if you could help me like, do a couple of house things before you leave like stuff to make our life run, so I don't have that on my plate alone while you're away on a vacation.
• All those things would make me feel better, and when they were done
• I was so content he'd be away. We had like our, you know. I would just say, Let me know when you get there.
• please. And could we say good night to each other, and then always let me know when you're heading back? Just so. I have an idea, and just kind of like touch base. But I know you're with your person. I don't want to be encroaching, and when those things didn't happen. It was just like I was distressed, and a lot of times it left these open, ended moments where I couldn't give him that space, because I'm like, well, you didn't help me take care of this and actually need your input. Something's happening built like silly crap that we could take care of before he left.
• and he would get upset. He's like, you're just jealous, I'm like, well, yeah. But also
• this, you left all this undone.
• And and you know in in your wake. And so
• I noticed the big difference in in those things, and how my jealousy manifested and things I felt so it wasn't being taken care of, so that was always the red flag for me. It's like, Are you being taken care of, or is your partner being shitty sometimes the jealousy is your partner purposely? Are things not going well in your relationship?
• Is this some toxic behavior? Are they being petty with how they're doing things
• like, those are the things you want to pay attention to. But you really have to sit back and
• like, Okay, is this me? Or is this a real issue that I need to address with them.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:35:14
• And these are very similar to like. How we deal with jealousy in swinging like it's almost the same exact thing like.
• you know, is, is your partner like telling this girl how hot and beautiful she is, but your love language is words of affirmation, and you need that from your partner, and when you see them doing it with someone else, it makes you really jealous, or like you know, acts of service or giving gifts like, is he giving gifts to this this girl that he's? You know, this girl that's part of like our swinger circle.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:35:46
• Doesn't give us.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:35:47
• You like. I always break it down to the 5 love languages. And then I think, Okay, what do I need from my partner? What does he need from me more of when I see him getting jealous, which typically for him is like a physical touch thing so like, then we make sure that before a swinger event we have sexual interactions
• after we have sexual interactions, so that we both feel that safety and that contentment. But that's working through that. And it's it's the same thing. Jealousy is the same emotion. No matter if you are swinger, or if you're a polyamorous, it's just a little bit different in navigating, I think, navigating the time aspect of all of this, and I know that you mentioned that.
• That's the I think, for Polyamory. That's probably one of the harder things. And I think that that's why a lot of swingers aren't actually polyamorous is because they don't think that they have the time, right? Like they're raising kids. And they're like
• doing their careers. And you know they're like, I don't. And that's me and my partner, I'm thinking to myself. I, barely fucking, have time for my partner, let alone other partners. And how could I give them space? And I don't want to be in a relationship with somebody, and like be a shitty partner, because I don't have time for them, you know. So like, can you speak a little bit about that, and sort of the time aspect of it.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:37:08
• Yeah.
• So again,
• I think in nominogly period you're all dealing with time, right? Because even with swingers like you're dealing with, can I make time to go to these events. Parties. They weekends. You're having to find that time you're having to square away childcare all that stuff right? And with polyamory. It is like multiple partners. Maybe your partners partners like I. When I go into town.
• I always have girls night with or girls day with my metamor, and we have to make time for that. It she doesn't feel good if I'm not making time for her, and I don't feel good about it, either. So we try to make sure we're working that in. And now their kiddo was older and asking for time, and I've known their kiddo since they were 5, another 14. And so it's like
• they're like, wait a minute.
• I would like some time with you, too, and it's just about kind of juggling and sitting down and doing what we're doing when we in like a couple of weeks, we're going to sit down with.
• Here's here's the time I'm going to be in town. I just finally booked my ticket home because I had an open ended ticket, so I wasn't sure when I was going to go home. Here's how long we have. Here's like this stuff we have to do. And then the other things that come into play like her parents her parents? Are they all their parents know about us? And so her parents love me. They're gonna want to spend time with us.
• That's a whole thing. So really, it's
• but that's not everybody's thing right. There are plenty of polyamorous folks who don't do.
• We do what we call kitchen table Poly, which is, everybody knows everybody's thing. We're all sitting at the table, all the metamors we all know each other. We're all involved to a level in each other's lives. We're very much there, but there's some folks doing garden party.
• which is.
• we all know each other. But you're maybe not at the table, knowing everybody's things, but like you're kind of dotting around, and you might know each other in that way. It's very casual.
• I would. Just it just comes down to
• who, matching up with the right person like, I'm busy, I travel a lot. So even if we, if you are dating me, if I start dating someone local. I have to really impress upon them that I'm probably not going to be home like I was barely home this summer.
• I was gone like every other week. So polyamorous or not, I'm not here. It's it's I'm I'm working. So we have to talk about that. And sometimes it might mean.
• what are the other ways you stay connected right? So maybe you can't see that person every week. But maybe it's every other week or you're getting lunch, or you're getting coffee like, what are the little ways you can slip in spending time with someone? And then, if you are doing things where you're
• families know each other doing like being able to be together. That's a part of big part of my relationship is I'm with his family.
• We are family together. So it's not just our alone time. It's also this family time which allows us to be with each other for a longer period of time, because he couldn't be away from his, his family and responsibilities for 2 weeks. But I can go. Be with them for 2 weeks, and we can find some solo time with each other, and then
• be with each other in that timeframe. So it's really kind of breaking down like.
• what do you have to give?
• if the the person you end up with or falling for might not even have the time to give either. So it's just like, Oh, maybe once a month. We do like a long weekend, and we see each other. And in between, we're texting each other doing video calls or Marco Polo, or any of those other ways, and that's all
• people in polyamory do. A lot of us are also long distance, like I don't. There's a large swath of polyamorous and and just non monogamous folks, because we again meet
• at these pollination points, which are events and a lot of events happen not where we live, for all of us. So we go to converge
• at at these places, and you meet people, and then you live up across the country from each other. So we all find ways to
• connect and find time.
• It's about just being real about. I don't have the time. I don't have this kind of time, but also realizing Polyamory isn't like, I'm up your ass every day.
• you know, like I. Just before this, I literally my partner's birthday is tomorrow they're going to Tahoe. They have a big wedding. I'm probably not going to talk to them heavily for the next, like 4 or 5 days, but it but he opened up my gift today. So for the season, wait. I have clients, but I have a window, and I'm like I have a window. We can
• get on a video call for at 2 o'clock and talk to each other, and then I have to start getting ready. He's like, that's great. I have to. And then I have to slide back into clients. But we had a little moment. We caught up. I told him about my week. He told me about what they're doing. He opened up his birthday presents. We like touch base. It was lovely.
• And now I'm and now we're doing what we need to do. So that's a lot of it's just
• getting your needs met, and it doesn't have to be these deep
• like. Well, I spend all my time with you.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:42:09
• Right? Yeah, and I want to know, too, like, what can
• people who are in the swinger community like, what can they learn?
• You know. What would you tell them that could influence their views on Polyamory? Because I know that.
• And I think that it's an uncomfortable conversation right like
• I remember when we 1st started swinging.
• we met somebody. And they were like, Yeah, I'm polyamorous. And
• I was confused. Because we actually started swinging with the intention of meeting polyamorous people, because we thought that we were going to be polyamorous, because that was the only representation that the mainstream media was giving at the time.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:42:54
• Right.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:42:55
• And we didn't know that swinging was really an option. And then my husband was like, Well, there, the there's these sex parties at this club, and I'm like, Oh, I bet you there's polyamorous people there, you know. But after we started swinging we met somebody who was polyamorous it was sort of like this, weird, like.
• kind of just not really understanding why they were in that space. I'm like, why are they here? Are they like emotional? Are they gonna try to like date me like kind of like that? So can you kind of give maybe
• some advice for what people in the swinging community can learn that can influence their views on polyamory.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:43:31
• Yeah, when not everybody
• that's polyamorous's
• out to make you part of their molecule, you know. I I talked about that about this at the top of everything. But
• I do date, and my dating is sometimes just like I want to meet people I do like connecting in the
• in the sense of meeting new people, conversation hanging out.
• I like, I like different personalities. It's that part is very nurturing to me, so I do enjoy that aspect of dating.
• and I never go into it thinking you're going to be
• in my life. It'd be great like we. We might not even vibe for that long. But it's
• it's there's a there's an openness and a and to it. But it's not necessarily a a want. So a lot of people coming into these spaces might just be looking for. If you meet a polyamorous person and y'all are in a sex space, it's probably because they were there for the kink, the sex? Not necessarily because they're trying to like meet someone. Today, I think a lot of us.
• We have the capacity to like, go and be in these
• sexual spaces without it turning into it has to be a relationship.
• so that that's the thing, too. It's like to just keep that at top of your head is, people aren't necessarily out there hunting. There's not.
• People looking and that there's so many different types of
• polyamory. And the way people do the polyamory. So just the opening here, like, how people do their stuff like what they, what they're into, what they're looking for.
• even how they manage it. Because how I do kitchen table Poly is so different from how someone else might do kitchen table poly. So really, it's taken that time to kind of have a conversation with folks. And you might find you have a lot more overlap in how you do things than you think, and maybe the hump that you're on like, especially through poly. Curious.
• What is the hump that you're stuck on? And you might not even recognize it right? You might not recognize it until you really start
• chatting with more folks or connecting
• but just kind of just open up a little bit, and to not thinking we're all trying to date
• everybody. We're not trying to have be our boyfriend girlfriend, our poly family. We're not looking to date
• everyone. It's it's the want it to have this experience.
• And then we are open to it. We don't have. There's no door here for me.
• It's just an open doorway. So if I can have this experience, and either you walk through this door or you don't. We've had this experience, and it's wonderful.
• those are the main things, because I I do think there's so much we're we're all in that same house.
• there is a very sexual component to polyamory. And then there's a very not sexual component to polyamory. And and I think some people are very much like
• they don't do sex parties. They're polyamorous, but they don't do sex parties. They don't go to these things. They're like, just with their polyamories, just with their polycom all this certain stuff. And then there are those of us who are just out here like we're just
• going to be out mixing it up. And it's really just about keeping an open mind and knowing what you want.
• you know, like I,
• to my detriment. Sometimes I date monogamous people who are who are just dating right like I end up dating monogamous folks who are very open and say I'm monogamous.
• I I'm enjoying myself right now, but that might change. And so I, knowing who I am, have to keep that in my mind that this person isn't going to change and become calling humorous for me.
• This I know what I'm signing up for, and I've had that I had a great time with a monogamous man, and he ended up rekindling a relationship with an ex. And he was so respectful and wonderful and kind, and we're still friends, and but it was hard because I was like, oh, I did get attached, but I'm like I knew this was coming like I can't. I can't be mad about
• the detachment. So I think that's it's just a misnomer that we're just expecting everybody to just be
• polyamorous with us, and we're we're not.
• Most of us are.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:47:39
• And I think it goes the other way, too, like when swingers are in space with polyamorous people, you know. And I I learned this through, you know, creating this, this space with our sort of meetup group where it's everybody's allowed to come. You know, you can be whatever relationship style, swinger, polyamorous relationship, anarchy. And it's like learning from somebody else's.
• you know, relationship. And then you're like, Oh, wow! That's interesting. You can either be like, well, that's not for me that that wouldn't feel comfortable for me, or you can. Wow! Actually, now that I know that that's a thing I would like to explore that a little more, or think about that. A little more. And you don't really know this until you're in space connecting with people who are different from you.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:48:25
• Exactly exactly, and that I think this is what a lot of us younger, you know, folks in community, I mean. Am I? Am I tipping into Elder at this point at 43? But I'm a i'm a Gen. Ex millennial. I'm a xennial on that scale, and I just feel like. When I came in. I felt there were so many rules.
• and it was like, No, this is not that. And I I was always like this is uncomfortably rigid. Why does it have to be this way? I feel like
• I always felt that way, even in kink. I felt like everything was so rigid. And this is how it has to be. And our generation, the millennials and the Zenials man, the Gen. Z. Are like
• really moving into this blurred edges.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:49:09
• Yup!
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:49:09
• We might not like. We actually have more in common with each other than we think. Some of us are actually straddling this line, anyway, and how we're doing things. It doesn't have to be these rigid boxes that we're fitting in. And we give more community that way, right like
• you're able to go into spaces and be comfortable if you were to go to a space that had polyamorous folks in it.
• And you know, like, Oh, they have play parties. We can have some sexy time, and I'm not going to be made to be somebody's
• girlfriend and sister wife like I mean, you know, and.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:49:41
• Right.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:49:41
• And for me, I know I can go to these spaces and have sexy time, and not, you know, have to. And I can be sexual. And it's not gonna mean I'm not polyamorous anymore. Or does it take that away? Because I'm doing these things? It's just so it's like, it's a little bit more free, and it allows for space for you to learn everything you just said to learn and go. Oh, I didn't know people would do this.
• I do that all the time I'm like, Oh, my God! I learned something new.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:50:11
• Yeah. And I. And I think it is, I will 100% agree with you. It's totally generational. I I have friends who are younger than me. They're Gen. Zers.
• and they are just real, even more fluid than us millennials. I think the one thing that that's going to differentiate the millennials
• and the Gen. Zers from any other generation in swinging before is that we are more social justice oriented and care a little bit more about social issues, and a lot more of us are openly queer. And so I do think that that's like the one thing. And that's why like, when I hang out with my pol, I all of my friends are polyamorous. Because they think very similar to me when it comes to that sort of thing.
• and I feel more comfortable being in space with people who like kind of have the same value, system and integrity as me. So I think. But I do think that like, that's the one thing that's gonna really
• seeing where we go in the next 1015 years with swinging. It's gonna be one of the the breaking points, like, if if it's not moving in the direction of
• kind of integrity. And you know, making sure that we have safe spaces for queer people and people of color, and like more toward that than more of our generation and even younger, is going to move more toward Polyamory, and that.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:51:43
• Yeah.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:51:43
• My biggest fear, and I don't want that to happen, because I do think that swinging is great.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:51:48
• Yeah, I don't think it'll. I don't think it's gonna break it in the way that, like I understand when you're within it. And you see how people are reacting to things. But I think what happens. It's like what we've been saying about the boomers. Right? You're gonna die. And not to be that person. But you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna there's gonna be a point where the folks who don't want that. They're not going to be in it anyway. And like
• we are seeing that we, when we open the door to more people right like, we don't need racism in these rooms because you're making it where
• you're you're you're making our pool of folks we can connect with smaller, because that kind of behavior is keeping people out of the out of the conversation, or they don't feel comfortable coming into the spaces abolishing these gender based freaking ticket prices because that, like one, it's never been fair to Cis men like, I've always said that. And we all. And it's grouping every Cis man into the creeper category.
• Do we have creepers? Yeah, let's make a rule to kick creepers out instead of like, sure. Come here, pay the money, and if you act up you would have to leave.
• which is what I love about the play party system, especially like the groups I'm in is
• when you're in here. You're there's a code of conduct that you're acting by, and if you are misbehaving, we're going to ask you to leave and keep your money, and you're not going to be invited back. So instead of like.
• oh, we're gonna make you pay more, because what's ha! Those people are still paying the money and showing up at the parties. And in the meantime you are keeping people out that might want to come, or who feel like, what do I pay, or how are you? What container are you putting me in in order to make me
• figure out what you charge me or like if you are in, especially in like as we talk about nominog being stretched into like triads and things of that nature because of their triads who aren't necessarily polyamorous. Right? They're just. They're in close track, might swing together. They may. You know those things
• all of that stuff
• and everything you just said. I think it just me. It moves it forward because we it will start
• capturing more people that were feeling left out might who were stepping away from it, who might have veered over more into the polyamorous
• spaces because they couldn't. They didn't feel like they fit in.
• or they want being welcomed in the same way. So I think it's just gonna stretch. I think it. I think there'll be a point like within every community where you hear you hear and feel people feeling uncomfortable. But I think you're already seeing the change. You're the change, right? You're the change in the community. You're seeing the change. I don't think it's gonna break it. I think I think it's just going to be reinvented.
• And because you're not saying you can't be
• still. Operate your swing way. You can still do swinging without feed. Nobody's taking that away from.
• We're just saying
• that these fuzzy edges exist, and that folks who are having those fuzzy edge feelings should be allowed to explore that and still call this home like y'all are a community. And it's home for a lot of people. And so when people start feeling like they're going to get pushed out because they have feelings or whatever that that causes problems. And so, if somebody feels like Oh, I can. Still, this is my home base that I can go explore over here and still come here and do these things in this container
• without it being a problem, and that what does that do? You just made more space. And maybe they? They bring a friend along. You're just making more community. You're just making it bigger and better instead of shrinking it down until that's what causes communities to die right when they get too small.
• and then they shrink and they wither away because nobody's
• really showing up to things. So
• just indication.
• Yeah.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:55:35
• I think so, too. I think it's gonna I think it's really. And I see the involvement
• not just within my own community and not just within like
• spaces when I'm talking to people and not just within the swinger community. But I see the involvement everywhere across the board, and I see it. I see a lot of positive things happening. I know that a lot of times I do talk about the negative things that I wish were different. But in reality
• I see so many amazing things happening. And I do think that people care. And I do think that people want to be better. They just don't really know they don't really have the tools or like, it depends on where they are. In regionally, right? You know, people in the South are gonna be different than people. I'm from Cleveland, a very progressive city that's like I live in, you know, very queer city like that's gonna feel, or you know, you live in you said New York. So like.
• it's just gonna feel different. Or California, the Bay area they're swinging community. Their communities are gonna feel different than like, Yeah, somebody in Georgia or Louisiana. So I do. I do think that. And that I was gonna ask, just like, Where do you see the future of swinging and polyamory? And where do you see it evolving into? And we kind of just even went over this a little bit.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:56:52
• Yeah, I I just I think we're gonna see less of a
• sharp division like we're already seeing. I think we're gonna see where it's just kind of
• just another way to do things. My whole. Honestly, I really am over. I I would love the media to get on board, and they won't as much as I'm I'm and I'm trying to do my part in things
• as I do different media things. But I'm just like it's non monogamy like. Yes, polyamor is how I'm operating. But it's all non right, we're not. We're all under this house of not being monogamous, and we do it in different ways, and I think that is the future where we can go. Hey? I'm not monogamous, and you don't have to feel like we have to
• define it so sharply. Unless it comes down to like inter relationships. Right? Like, it's important. I love a label when you're trying to
• connect because labels help us
• figure out, are we on the same wavelength? But I think, just in general I see it. I see it being just
• kind of this amalgamation meshing where you see people moving a little bit more freely.
• it growing and being a little bit stronger like I I'm excited. I don't know exactly what it's gonna look like, but I'm exact. I'm excited to see
• I'm excited. What? What's happening now? I'm excited to see
• what comes in the future as like
• Gen. Z. Ages, and and gets into more spaces where they're creating these spaces. That's the part. And that's the part that's hard for me to imagine only because
• it doesn't exist yet. Right? But.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:58:33
• Right.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 00:58:34
• Because, as we get older, like, I'm already seeing it here in New York, we have this group called Hit me up, and they do play parties, and the way they do them is just
• I. I love it like I just all the all the things that we want, a lot of the stuff we just talked about is how they implement stuff and how they care for people, but also that they really are about creating community. It's it's about. Do you fit within our community? Do you want to be in this community? And then when you're in these spaces
• and they're having parties, and they're having events that you can go. And you're like, Oh, hey! How are you? And people are there either as like polyamorous, and maybe they're there with all their poll, or some of their partners that they have sex with, and you might have some folks who are meeting and then swapping and doing swinging like, but we're all sharing a house. We're all in that space together, but in our own little
• on our own little mattresses we're doing things
• differently. And so I'm like, Oh, my God, if this is gonna be
• bigger and better. And as folks start coming up with their own groups, parties, events.
• community spaces.
• and it's not
• everybody underneath what's existing fighting?
• It's like, we're just we're gonna be making our own stuff. And what does that look like? And then what is that? Oh.
• I'm I'm I'm excited.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 00:59:51
• I am, too, and I, I think, like you know, cause I started swinging. I was 28 years old. So I think about like kind of how Gen. Z. They're. They're coming up here like in the next couple of years
• into that space of like figure learning, you know. Cause. You don't really know yourself in your early twenties you're still like. So once once you get to that point where you're like. Oh, that way, I know myself, you know. And they're just coming into more of these spaces. And so I'm really excited to see the changes. And I I think that we're gonna see. And we see it in the media right now, right? We see this boom of. And unfortunately, everyone's talking about polyamory.
• Maybe they're labeling things a little bit wrong. They are.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 01:00:34
• They're like.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 01:00:35
• Whole, nother, subject, right.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 01:00:37
• Every every kind of monogamy they call polynomy, cause it's like a buzz word, and I hate it. Yeah.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 01:00:43
• It's it's a trendy fun, buzz word that like Oh, my God! This is this is the word of the year. This is the word of 2024, right? And it's like, No, you guys are just like swinging. But you're not calling it that, you know, or yeah, or like, no, that feels more like relationship anarchy. Actually, what you're doing. Yeah. But so it's it's 1 of those things. But it's it's that buzz word that more people are, gonna you know.
• See it and read it and like it. But but anyhow I wanted to thank you so much for coming on here talking with us about poly curiosity. Did you already do your workshop on Flora about this.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 01:01:24
• No what am I doing? Oh, plura, I'll be doing a but stuff thing, but they're helping sponsor my show set. Set a go go, which is at the end of September, September 25, th but that, that is, folks can ask
• any questions they want, and I do get a lot of like polyamory swinging.
• Or what are we doing? Question?
• So you can. Yeah.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 01:01:47
• Find your stuff like that on Plura. If you're on the plura app, and how else can people connect with you? Find you if they want. If they want to hold space with you, if they want to come to one of your talks, if they want to come to one of your workshops online. How can they do that.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 01:02:01
• Instagram is the best place. It's where I post about everything that I'm doing. I also have a website. It's Dirtylo and there some sometimes is updated, but usually
• my Instagram is like of the minute. What am I doing in the coming weeks? Classes whatever reaching out reach out through Dms, I definitely love having these one on one conversations, because everything we talk about right
• is still can be honed down differently for each individual.
• And so sometimes you need like to talk to somebody and share the exact thing you have going on to, then figure that out. So I'm always here for that.
• Folks hire me for that kind of stuff all the time. So reach out. I'd love to like help. You make space in your life for more love.
• Kiley (she/her)
• 01:02:51
• So you do like peer support sessions and whatnot.
• Dirty Lola She/Her
• 01:02:53
• Yeah, I get hate calling it coaching, not really coaching. But I do more like, tell me your thing, your problem, and then let's kind of apply these things to your life and or figure out what might fit for what you're doing versus like these big, broad like what we're or things that have worked for us right might speak to somebody, but there might be somebody who's like, Well, that's not at all with my life. So that's I try to hold space for those folks, too.
• Kiley (she/her)
• Love that. Well, thank you so much for riding on the Pineapple express with us, and I'm sure we'll hear free from you again soon.